How To Reduce Orange Peel In Clear Coat

View Full Version : Orange peel: Too much fluid, too much air?

Hannibal

10-30-2006, 08:53 PM

I have had mixed results with orange peel. I am not sure what I am doing differently though. What would be the "Main" cause of it? Is it too much fluid? Should I reduce the fluid to the nozzle, while increasing the fan?

If there was one main thing that you would say caused orange peel, what would it be? I am laying 3 coats of clear so I can sand out the "rough" spots.

PS would adding more activator help or hurt this? Should I warm the clear up to ambient first? I store it in a cool shop, then shoot in warmer temps (not more than 20F difference)

dave_demented

10-30-2006, 09:00 PM

ahh orange peel... there are so many things that can cause it. its usually your gun technique, you dont wanna move to fast, also increasing your pressure might help a little bit. are you using the right reducer for the temp your spraying in?

If there was one main thing that you would say caused orange peel, what would it be? I am laying 3 coats of clear so I can sand out the "rough" spots.

PS would adding more activator help or hurt this? Should I warm the clear up to ambient first? I store it in a cool shop, then shoot in warmer temps (not more than 20F difference)

The temperature of the vehicle's surface is more critical than the temperature of the clear. Once the clear hits the surface it will warm quickly and flow but if the surface is cold it will stop the clear from flowing into a smooth coating. Also, do a search on "orange peel" and you'll find a lot of answers in the General Discussion area.

Hannibal

10-30-2006, 09:38 PM

Thanks Len. Yes, dave I am using the correct activator in the clear. The base lays down very very nice. But the clear is where I am getting the orange peel effect.

The clear is almost always more difficult to spray correctly than the color. There's a lot more varialbles in spraying the gloss coat than there is the base coat and this is why bc/cc jobs tend to be a little easier for the novice, you're spraying the finish in steps rather than shooting single stage paint (color and gloss) all at once.

Phil V

10-30-2006, 10:28 PM

Hannibal, what gun are you using and what brand of materials are you using. In answer to your question about warming the clear up to the ambient temperature - most definately. What happens is clear gets thicker as temperature goes down which makes it more difficult or impossible even for a high dollar gun to correctly atomize that thicker clear. Warming it up can also make the difference between runs or no runs (all things equal but the temperature of the clear in the gun). But I absolutely agree with Len in that the temperature of the vehicle being painted is critical. Orange peel is one side of the equation and runs are also part of that equation. Cooler clear will not harden like it would if the clear was say 70 deg.F. The longer it takes that clear to harden the more chance it has to run.

Hannibal

10-30-2006, 11:03 PM

Phil, that may have been the cause of my weekend nightmare. I had a tailgate I painted that didn't harden for over an hour. When I moved the taligate the clear was practically oozing off of the tailgate causing runs and sags. I reshot it and it went well because I warmed up the panel in the sun for awhile.

**BUT I have been leaving my clear in the cool shop where it has been mid
40's to mid 50's at night. Then I am spraying in mid 70's using medium reducer, hardener. I am going to do first color of a two-tone paint job tomorrow. I am going to let the clear warm up in the sun a while. And then I will use same medium temp reducer.

Thanks for that tip. It makes perfect sense now.

PS I am too embarassed to say what kind of gun I am using:( It does a great job when I can use it right. I will post some pics tomorrow night of my progress. The interior was done in the spring and it went great.

Thanks again

You would be better off taking the paint, hardener and reducer into your house to keep it warm so it's ready to use when needed.

isprayum

10-31-2006, 12:24 AM

What would be the "Main" cause of it?

Could be lots of reasons, but if I had to pick one for a novice it would be poor overlap. you said you had rough spots. thats not orange peel, thats a dry spot caused by inconsistant overlap. Orange peel is when the whole panel is nice and wet, right from the first coat and you still have a lot of texture.

another common cause is the base overspray. a novice(or even a pro) can leave the base rough and grainy. if the surface isnt flat to start with, well...

I know Len has disagreed with me here, but I believe a novice should always tack the base properly before clearing. just doing that can make a huge difference in the flatness. you'd be surprised to see all the color dust the tack rag will pick up.

As for the temp issue, thats a good call, especially this time of year

Hannibal

10-31-2006, 12:53 AM

As for the temp issue, thats a good call, especially this time of year

Whats a good call? to warm up the products before using?

I tacked the panel before clearing with a good dupont antistatic (blue) tack cloth. I meant by rough spots the orange peel effect. It did start with my first coat. I am draining my compressor before using, and I am using an inline dryer filter (grenade?).

Anyway I expected some issues, as this is my first go at painting. but the interior went so much better but it was very warm when I painted it, like 90-95F. I used high temp hardener in the clear for that part of it.

I am using all NASON products. I am using the 497-00 overall clear 3:1. with medium temp activator.

Thanks again for the tips. I will see how the warmer product does. It will be a warmer ambient temp tomorrow too like 88F, so we shall see:confused:

Orange Peel is mainly caused by the actual panel not been warm enough.

Most modern SS and urethane based clear was designed to be used in a baking cycle. If the panel you are spraying on to is cold then when the paint hits it, it will fail to flow out correctly.

In a booth that has a baking cycle its not a big deal as you can raise the temp of the sheet metal. In a small garage that has no heated booth then the next best thing is to slightly over reduce the clear or ss. Put the coats on light so they do not run.

A good gun can also help. For clear len sells the GFG-670 from devilbiss. Thats one of the best guns for clear that does not cost an arm or a leg.

Getting back to the baking cycle. When the SS or clear is baked, the solvents in the paint will raise to the top and cause the paint to flow out.

Hannibal

10-31-2006, 02:57 PM

well, today went much better, except instead of orange peel, I have runs !!!!

Not many, just a few. Should i just relax and let it harden then wetsand em out?

PS How many coats of clear are sufficient? Desireable?

dave_demented

10-31-2006, 10:09 PM

i usually do 2-3 coats, depending on the coverage and how well it sprayed.